Big Red's Tales of the Uncanny

[Big Red]

Just be you. Anyone giving you grief about your being active in the church is probably just mad your making them look bad for actually doing what they say they are doing. My wife was raised catholic and it is a bane to my in-laws that I'm not and don't plan on ever being Catholic. Im a god fearing Jesus loving christian and Ill just stick with that.

My wife & I have speculated a bit on the motivation for some of what they do, and this is an attitude we both agree is at play for a lot of it. In a similar vein to the religion, something that has really drawn the ire of a bunch of them is the fact that I no longer drink. My wife doesn't, either, but this is mostly because she's been pregnant or breastfeeding for most of the last 3-4 years. It's not something I bring up or expound upon; I simply don't do it. If someone pushes the issue I'll tell them I don't drink, but I don't go any further than that. I do have a problem with the amount of drinking a lot of my family members do, but instead of making an issue out of it I've simply avoided those gatherings or left before they turned ugly. This actually started before I quit drinking, mainly because I didn't have any desire to be around for the passing out and puking, or for when the vicious, verbal attacks spread to the point where they were going after people who were actually at the party (as opposed to the standard procedure of targeting people who weren't there or who were in another room). This last bit has led to some of the ugliest family scenes, with parents/in-laws of the nastiest in the group either in tears or kicking people out of their house. Considering how frequently this has occurred, it still baffles me that the parents not only pretend that their children don't behave this way, but defend them and attack anyone who complains about similar treatment. They've also vehemently defended their children's drinking, employing selective amnesia so they can claim that the new carpet wasn't the result of one of them vomiting all over the old one, that certain fights or other damages never occurred, etc. One cousin resumed her very heavy drinking within weeks of having her baby. Everyone knew this because she spent the last few weeks of her pregnancy posting on Facebook about how she was looking forward to drinking again, then documenting that first night out with pictures and posts whose incoherence progressed as the night went on. This was over a year ago and despite her ongoing chronicling of her wasted nights out, her parents are still adamant that she hasn't had a drop since the baby was born.

Getting back to my point, though, I know of several parties I didn't attend where a big topic of conversation was how a bunch of them were glad I wasn't there so I wouldn't ruin their fun by preaching about their drinking. As I pointed out, I've never done anything of the sort. Some of the comments that made their way back to me, though, sounded a lot like self-accusation on the part of the person making them. One cousin apparently gave a speech that I undoubtedly would have made had I been there condemning him for his back-to-back DUI's. Several others apparently have done similar things, pointing out what I would accuse them of, all of which had to do with either the level of their drinking or bad things that have happened as a result, including many things I'd never heard of until they brought them up at these parties. It absolutely sounds like me not drinking (or drinking less since a lot of this took place before I quit altogether) led to me being made a scapegoat for their own guilty consciences. It wouldn't be much of stretch to assume that something similar is going on in regards to the religious stuff.

[Big Red]

I may have posted about this in the old forum, but with more kids of my own, and with more relatives having their own babies, all that unwanted advice seems to pile up quicker than ever nowadays. I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about: Your wife's best friend--the one who's never had a child and can't keep a houseplant alive--comes over, watches how you handle an issue with your kids, then proceeds to tell you what you should have done to handle the situation properly. Worse, you tell one of your older children they can't do something and even explain your reasons to them, then you later get a call from your parents or a sibling who wants to know why you're being so unreasonable with your children.

The latest, though certainly not the greatest battle around here has been about my daughter's earlobes. More to the point, what if anything I'm going to let her stick through them, and when. I'm certainly not opposed to earrings and I know my daughters will likely all have them eventually, but I am opposed to having kids grow up too quickly and people who think they should be allowed to take certain decisions regarding my children away from my wife & I. We've been fighting the earring battle for at least six years now. My oldest girl was about to turn five and my mom wanted to know when we were going to pierce her ears. "When she turns 13," was my reply. Had she bothered to let me explain myself, I would have told her about how I don't want to rush any aspect of growing up and that I don't see earrings as a necessary part of being a little girl. I would have reminded her not only of some of my daughter's health issues, but also of my sister's and my cousins' numerous issues with their piercings; I would have then told her I didn't see a need to introduce any other potential health problems while we were still trying to figure out what was going on with these other recurring issues. Further, I would have gotten back to the problems with my sister's and cousins' piercings and reminded my mom how she and my aunts all said they wished they'd have waited until their daughters were older and more responsible before letting them get their ears pierced so they could have potentially avoided some of the nasty infections that came about due to them being too young and irresponsible. I also would have told her that I felt 13 was a pretty monumental age for a young lady and that getting her ears pierced would be a good way to commemorate it. Finally, I would have told her that they're my daughters so any decisions I made regarding them were my decisions to make, and not hers.

That's what I would have said if I'd been able to get a word out before she and my sister threw something of a tantrum over my ridiculous and outdated notions regarding girls, and how I had no idea how important it was to a little girl that she be allowed to mutilate part of her body. They went on for quite a while before I was finally able to ask what business it was of theirs. From the looks on their faces, you'd think I'd grown a second head. They finally agreed that I was a horrible person while I agreed to leave the room and quit responding. We had a replay of that at least 2-3 times each year for a few years after that but were lucky enough to get a break when my oldest daughter was 8-9 1/2. Then we started hearing it again because she was coming up on being 10 and my mom thought that was a more reasonable age than 13. I told her we'd just have to disagree and that I wouldn't discuss it any further. She didn't understand that last bit, though. She continued to bring it up, sometimes multiple times when we saw her, other times calling out of the blue to tell me how wrong I was. She made the mistake one time of telling me how this would let my daughter show off some of her individuality and personality. I quickly reminded her that, going to a Catholic school, they were only allowed to wear small, nondescript stud earrings; anything else would get them sent to the office. It was also toward the end of soccer season and since no jewelry was allowed during games or practices, she'd have to go long spells with the earrings out when she was supposed to be leaving them in non-stop. l My sister, for her part, had quit voicing an opinion because she'd recently had a daughter of her own and was hearing from her in-laws and a couple of our cousins on an almost daily basis about what a bad mother she was and how every little decision she was making was not only wrong but was going to ruin her daughter's life (we heard much of the same when our son was younger). My mom brought it up again when we were at their house having dinner. Once again, she told me I was being unreasonable by insisting on 13. I told her I agreed, but that now I believed 15 was a much more reasonable age. I offered to let her try for 16, but she decided to drop it.

We didn't her much about it again until a couple months ago as my daughter neared her 11th birthday. Once again, the earring issue reared its head. I deflected it without much issue the first few times it came up, but then my mom told me she planned on taking my daughter to get them pierced behind my back. I told her that would be a major violation of my trust and would cause huge issues between us. I also told her it would likely lead to the other girls not being allowed to get their ears pierced until much older. I reminded her that this was something for us to do with our daughter and not her. It's been a couple weeks since we've heard anything so I'm hoping the situation has been diffused, at least for another year or so. Throughout a lot of this, I did some commiserating with a friend who was in a very similar situation. Like me, she believes that 13 is a good age to get her daughter's ears pierced. She also hears a lot of the same griping from her mother and other relatives. She's used a lot of the same arguments I've used and has gotten similar results. As annoyed as each of us gets, it's not as bad as one of her friends who ended up moving out of state to get away from her parents after one too many earring arguments. Sure, there were other things going on, but the earrings were the last straw.

Over the years, we've faced far more interference regarding our son than any of the kids. Every last little decision we've made regarding him has upset at least three other people in the family. We spent years dealing with one group saying we should do XYZ. When we finally did, the other group would get upset and say we should go back to doing ABC. Honestly, there's not a single aspect of us raising him that didn't lead to calls, emails or heated discussions. We've had some periods where things weren't as bad as others, but it's been pretty consistent over the years. While I could write a book about the battles we fought over the years, I'll just mention the most recent one. With Christmas upon us, our son decided to email his Christmas list to the family. I should point out that I've struggled with him over his Christmas list through the years. One year he asked for nothing but big-ticket items and said that he'd throw a fit if he didn't get everything on his list (including the PC, big screen TV and the car). That was about the closest I ever came to wrapping up a lump of coal and having that be the only thing that greeted him on Christmas morning. Several years ago, clothes led to a huge fight. Or rather, several huge fights. He asked for a variety of things, from jeans to T-shirts and sweaters. We found some great deals and got him several pairs of jeans, a stack of T-shirts, some thermal shirts and an awesome sweater. He's really particular about what he wears, so we took this into consideration and only bought him dark, solid colors--no designs, logos, bright colors or anything else that typically sends him into a fit. While they weren't all black & gray, most of them were, while the others were dark navy blue, dark brown and dark forest green. Christmas morning he greeted the clothes with muted appreciation. Two months later he asked my wife to take him out clothes shopping because he didn't have anything to wear. According to him he had no jeans, no T-shirts and nothing warmer to wear while he was walking to work. She told him to tell me, and when he finally did I asked him, "What about your Christmas clothes?" As it turned out, he'd yet to wear a single item. Most of them were still in the plastic they came in, all sitting in a drawer in his bedroom. It was all I could do to keep from wringing his neck. We fought over the clothes for well over a month--until it got warm, in fact--at which point he went back to wearing his summer clothes without complaining. None of the clothes we bought him that year were ever worn, and we ended up giving them to Good Will. I told my wife that was the last time I'd buy him clothes, so now he just gets a gift card for Christmas. The other big Christmas fight we had was over last year's list. In addition to clothes, I've made a habit for several years of not buying him movies or music. The main issue is that most of what he watches and listens to is garbage. While most of it is just bad, some of it is truly offensive. My rule is that if it's not something I'd allow to be played around the girls, I won't bring it into my house. I don't pretend that I can keep him from ever listening to or watching stuff like that, but he tends to suffer from severe lack of judgment and will often play his music when the girls are in his room (the movies aren't as much of an issue since he made some really poor decisions that led to him no longer having a TV in his room). The Christmas list issue came to a point last year when he asked me to email his list out for him (long story, but I'd turned off his internet at the time). Me being his dad, I'm hopelessly ignorant, if not entirely stupid, so he was certain that I wouldn't know what those movies were on his list. I'm also not quite bright enough to Google the ones I didn't recognize. Even with my monumental shortcomings and insurmountable ignorance, I somehow figured out that those movies he was asking for were essentially softcore porn. I left them off his list then had an unpleasant discussion with him about why I don't let things like that in my house, especially if he's the one bringing them in.

This all leads to this year's Christmas list which was mostly filled with CD's, as well as the obligatory big ticket items. I told him immediately he wouldn't be getting the new PC or an iPad, then told him he needed to come up with something other than CD's since I won't allow any of my money to go to the sort of music he likes to listen to. After a couple weeks of this, I finally decided that I'd be coming up with my own list for him. While I'm sure he'll really enjoy the things I got him, I ended up mentioning this to my mom. She'd already bought him one of the CD's he'd asked for and she thought it was awful that I wouldn't buy him one. This is the same woman who wouldn't let me play the Violent Femmes at my high school graduation party and instead turned on the oldies station. She did the same thing at my 20th birthday party when I tried to play Jane's Addiction. Despite that she told me it was unfair of me to not get him what he asked for for Christmas. I explained the situation and she still told me I was being unfair. I brought up the porn from last year and she said that this was music, not movies, and I was being unfair. I told her that letting the girls hear the lyrics were just as bad as letting them watch those movies. She still insisted I was being unfair. I finally told her I guessed I'd just have to be unfair and that I was sure he'd get over it.

The other really big issue that's been causing tension is the one that really drives me nuts. I've mentioned before that the whole family is Catholic (for the record, I realize it sounds like I'm bringing this up a lot, but it has more to with what's going on with my family, etc. than me consciously trying to make this a topic). This goes for the bulk of my wife's family as well. Despite being brought up Catholic and going to 12 years of Catholic schools, though, until a couple years ago I didn't have a really full understanding of what was expected of me as a faithful Catholic. While I thought I was doing a decent job raising my kids in the faith, after studying up on it I realized that we'd been falling pretty short of the mark over the years. I committed myself to doing better and worked hard at making a lot of changes not just in my own habits but in how we spend time as a family as well. A lot of the younger people in the family are very lax in their faith (and that's being generous for a lot of them), and some of them have really looked down on us for this, but I figured this was something that would be looked on quite favorably by the older crowd, especially by the grandparents. If you've paid any attention to anything I've written over the years, you can probably guess that I couldn't have been more wrong.

The first one to really throw some opposition our way was my mother-in-law. She was over one Saturday and I was taking the kids to Mass. As Catholics, we're required to go to Mass every Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation. She's well aware of this and usually goes on her own. I had to work that night and we had a family party the next day so I wanted to go Saturday night as opposed to Sunday morning (Saturday evening Mass fulfills your Sunday obligation). I'd just gotten out of the shower and was working to not only finish getting myself ready, but to get the kids ready as well. This was shortly after our youngest had been born so my wife was staying home with her. Things were going smoothly until my mother-in-law told the kids they didn't have to go. She then started arguing with me, saying that the kids clearly didn't want to go so they should be allowed to stay home. I tried to stay calm at first and went over everything I just explained above. In the meantime, my son had already taken his shoes off and was heading to his room. When he turned and saw the look I gave him, he went right back and put his shoes back on. The older girls didn't know what to do so they just stood in the middle of the room trying not to make eye contact with either of us. My mother-in-law wanted to keep arguing the point. What I mean is, she wanted to keep raising her voice since she didn't have any argument other than, "they don't want to go." I finally decided to show her that, especially in my own house, I could raise my voice much louder than she could, and that my argument of, "get your coat on; you're going with us then I'm taking you home," trumped anything she had to say. My wife finally intervened to get me to let her mother stay, but when we got back I had a very one-sided discussion with her during which I explained that if she wanted to keep seeing us as much as she does, she should never contradict me in front of the kids.

Things were calm with her for a while. A couple months, in fact. She was over on another Saturday, though, and she decided she wanted to be a problem again. Something else we're required to do as Catholics is go to confession at least once a year. The Church would like people to go more often, but once a year is a requirement. This wasn't made real clear to me growing up so I went something like 13 years between confessions, then another 6 years before going again. I decided I wanted my kids to get in the habit of going a bit more regularly than I had, so we started going as a family once a month, which is currently how often our priest offers it (I'll go more often if needed, either to another parish or by appointment with our priest, but I only take the family to the monthly confession). The whole thing usually only takes about 10 minutes if it's just me and the kids, up to 20 minutes if it's the whole family, or 80-90 minutes if we stay for Mass afterward. This particular week was just going to be me and our older girls. Once again, we had family plans the next day so we were going to stay for Mass, and the baby was sick so my wife was staying home. When my mother-in-law found out where we were going, she scoffed at the idea. She started to say something about it, but I reminded her of our earlier talk and she piped down. However, she proceeded to do everything she could to make us late. Since our parish's open confession only lasts 30 minutes, if we're a few minutes late and there's actually other people there, there's a good chance we'll miss out (this is something my mother-in-law had heard me talk about before when it was just me going). While I was getting ready, she spent the whole time asking the girls to do things for her--bringing her a blanket, refilling her water, etc. When I came out the girls hadn't even started getting ready. She then proceeded to piddle about, getting in their way and doing whatever she could to spare them from going with me. We managed to get there on time, but my wife was treated to hearing her mother complain about it the entire time we were gone (she failed to mention this until after I'd taken her mother home later).

Since then there have been several times that she interfered while we were getting ready for Mass. She's also had talks with the girls when I wasn't around, telling them that they didn't need to go with me to Mass or confession if they didn't want to. This led to another talk with her, after which we didn't see her for a couple weeks. We also had a less than pleasant time one night when she had to stay over due to some work being done on her house. We pray the Rosary each night as a family. Based on everything else that has gone on, I knew this was is something she wouldn't be too thrilled with. However, I wasn't going to skip it just to appease her. When we started I told her she could either join in, sit there quietly while we did it, or go in the other room until we were done. Instead, she chose to sit on the couch and ruffle papers, roll her eyes and scowl at me the whole time. It was truly delightful.

While I was coming to expect such behavior from my mother-in-law, I knew I'd never have to deal with anything like that from my own mom. My grandmother was very devout and did her best to raise her kids to be the same way. Of all of them, my mom seemed to be the one who followed in her mother's footsteps. She's very involved in her parish and goes to Mass at least every Sunday, sometimes on Saturday and throughout the week. She does a lot of volunteering and is the sort who is much more likely to send out religious Christmas cards as opposed to ones with Santa or snowmen on them. She's also informed me of how distressed she's been at various times over the years that her children (particularly my brother and I) haven't stuck with their faith as well as she always hoped we would. I figured if anything, she'd be overjoyed at the fact that I was fully back in the fold and doing my best to keep my children that way as well. To be fair, her reaction to certain things has been nothing like that of my mother-in-law. However, there have been several issues. The first time she left me scratching my head was about a year ago when I went to a memorial Mass for some old friends. It was on a Saturday night and fulfilled my obligation for the week. I didn't take the kids with me, though, and made a point of taking them the next day. She seemed mystified as to why I'd do that since I'd been the night before. I thought that, of all people, it would go without saying with her and I honestly didn't know how to react to her. A couple months later we had a similar issue when the girls spent the night at my parents' house. My mom was supposed to take them to Saturday night Mass. I went to the early one Sunday morning then went to pick up the girls. When I found out they hadn't been the night before, I took them to a later Mass that afternoon. This time, my mom actually told me it wasn't necessary and that that girls didn't actually have to go (on the contrary, since they're over 7, they are required to fulfill their Mass obligations; being their parent, if I don't take them each week, I'm the one who's done something wrong).

The confession thing has been an issue for my mom as well. Her parish has confession every Saturday. It's fairly close to our house and it was my parish for a good portion of my life, so it's one of my go-to parishes if I need to go to confession or can't make it to the monthly offering at my parish. I prefer going to my priest, but I have three other parishes that I like to go to when I can't get to him, all for a variety of reasons. Anyway, we got to confession sort of late at my mom's parish and decided to just stay for their Saturday evening Mass so we could sleep in the next day. We did our penances then said the Rosary while waiting for Mass to begin. I should point out that outside of praying before dinner, we never prayed as a family when I was growing up, so the nightly Rosary took a bit of getting used to. It's also something that my mom and sister act sort of funny about when I bring it up. Not that they really should since we're all Catholic and this shouldn't seem out of the ordinary, but I've found that it's not that easy finding Catholics who still practice a lot of the typical, traditional Catholic customs. Anyway, my mom showed up shortly before Mass and saw us sitting in the pew. She came over and asked why we were there. When I mentioned confession, she got a funny look on her face and asked why I was bringing the girls. Once again, it was one of those times I was stumped. She clearly knows what's required of us, so having her question us doing it leaves me a bit speechless.

Not long after that we were at their house for dinner. We were talking about our plans for the following week, which just happened to be the one Saturday our priest hears confessions, and I mentioned that we couldn't do whatever it was until after 4:00 because of that. My mom gave me this look and said, "You know, I never forced you kids to go to confession when you were growing up." This was one of those times when I probably would have been better off had I been struck speechless. Instead, I said, "Well, maybe you should have." I had sense enough to stop myself from saying too much after that, but she clearly wasn't too happy with what leaked out before I reined myself back in. In my defense, though, it's like a parent wanting their children to speak a foreign language but they never take the time to speak it in the home. Years later, they can't understand why their kids aren't fluent in it. Then, a few years after that, they see that one of their kids has gotten pretty proficient in the language and is working on it with their children on a regular basis, but instead of congratulating them and being supportive, they tell them they shouldn't be doing that to the kids, and only start speaking it around the grandchildren after the parents insist.

I will point out that things have improved quite a bit with my mom. She very seldom questions anything we do with the kids related to our faith anymore, and is now talking to me about it much more openly than she ever has. She also knows that if the kids stay over, they have to go to Mass with her either Saturday night or Sunday morning (for the life of me, I can't figure out why she fell out of that habit with them). I figure in a few more years I should finally have her trained right.

[figureaddict]

My daughter is not going to be allowed to get earings until she turns 13 either.

[Big Red]

My daughter is not going to be allowed to get earings until she turns 13 either.

I was going to give this a thumbs up. We need more smilies.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to earrings on principle and I'm not necessarily going to begrudge someone their choice, but they shouldn't criticize our choice, either. I think too many people either push their kids to look and act older, or don't take a stand when their kids look and behave inappropriately. We were at a function for our daughters' school and I couldn't take a picture of my one daughter because she was standing near her upper-class "buddy." This girl, who was barely 13, was dressed so skankily that I was honestly worried that having a picture of her in that outfit on my hard drive could get me into legal trouble. I have a young cousin about the same age whose mother lets her dress in a similar fashion. I ran into them in public not that long ago and got a lot of disapproving, disgusted looks when she came up and gave me a hug. She's a sweet, wonderful little girl, but the way she was dressed made me look like a pervert. They have the rest of their lives to make bad decisions. When they're this age, just let them be kids.

[figureaddict]

Exactly.

I will say I do have a problem when I see babies with their ears pierced.

[Big Red]

A few years ago, a friend of a friend had her newborn's ears pierced. I thought there was some sort of age limit at most respectable places (even the mall kiosks), so this could have been a home job as the baby was just a couple weeks old. This friend of whom this was a friend is the same one who had another friend who I know I mentioned in the old forum several times who got her less than 2-year-old a tramp stamp. Anyway, the one who pierced her baby's ears didn't bother to take very good care of the piercings which led to a severe infection which nearly killed the baby. That was one of those incidents that got me something of a respite from the complaints about my daughters not having their ears done.

[Qui-Gon Jim]

Wait a second... Someone had their 2YO tattooed? Sounds like someone needs to have their child taken away and some tatto artist needs to be brought up on charges. That can't possibly be legal.

[Big Red]

Definitely not legal, which is why I suspect it happened at home instead of a parlor. We were at a birthday pool party and the girl came in with her baby. The baby was in diapers and a bikini top. From a distance it looked like she had a leaking dirty diaper. When I got closer I figured it was a temporary tattoo of a tramp stamp. As completely un-classy as that was, I didn't think too much of it until I heard a couple others discussing whether it was real or not. I moved closer and it definitely looked real. I was trying to nonchalantly get a closer look when I heard the mother talking about it. She mentioned how the baby cried while getting it and that it was still bothering her but it wasn't too bad if they kept giving her Infant Tylenol. As she was saying that the baby got close enough that I could see the tattoo better. The tattooed portion of her skin was raised a bit while everything around it was red, just like I'd seen from friends who'd gotten tattoos over the years. As my jaw was hitting the pavement I heard an aunt of mine say, "You have got to be f***ing kidding me!" The mother realized that the comment was directed at her, as were about a dozen sets of shocked stares. She grabbed her baby and left. When the shock of the idea of a mother actually tattooing a tramp stamp on her not quite 2-year-old daughter finally wore off, we tried to get the mother's name but none of her friends would give it. Several of us tried finding out her name for a couple months after that but my cousin refused to give it, then insisted it was a temporary tattoo--and, no, she wouldn't answer when we asked, "If it's a temporary tattoo, what's the harm of telling us her name?" She's one of my cousin's Facebook friends now so I get to see her trashy posts fairly regularly. The party was 5-7 years ago, though, so I don't think there'd be a point in reporting it now. And, yes, the mother's Facebook activity is just as classy as you'd expect from someone who'd tramp stamp a 2-year-old. I'm assuming the little girl has to have a stripper pole in her bedroom by now.

[figureaddict]

That is sickening. I feel bad for the little girl.

[figureaddict]

OMG. Forgetting the age of the girl, what about how it ios going to strech and distort as she grows.